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      Grading the Transfer Window

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      Scottbot
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      Grading the Transfer Window
      Sep 01, 2017 09:03:29 pm
      Mo Salah - Grade A

      He has made a cracking start to his LFC career following an excellent pre-season with a few goals and some strong performances in both the League and Europe thus far. He is incredibly quick and with Mane on the other side it has enabled us to really stretch the pitch and I'd say we are the most dangerous tea,minnthe league in the counter with these two in the side, even more so once Phil stops crying and gets his arse back into gear.given some of the crazy transfer fees this summer he also looks pretty good value for money. He is quick and direct and has goals in his game, I'd anticipate he will get more than 15 this season and if Mane can match it on the other side we are a good season. Most importantly for me, he improves our first 11.

      Dominic Solanke - Grade B-

      I don't think anyone was particularly excited when he came, Chelsea reject was the overriding feeling but he had a good tournament with the England Under 20s and followed that up with a strong pre-season. He looks good in the air, he strikes a ball nicely and I like the way he drops off and links play. The fact Origi has been allowed to go out on loan I think is in large part down to Solanke. It's still early days but he looks like he can be a real player. Important he grabs the opportunity when called upon in the League Cup in a couple of weeks.

      Andy Robertson - Grade B-

      Could well turn out to be a B+ but we've only got the one game to go on thus far and I hadn't seen too much of him last season. Early evidence sugggests he has got a sweet left foot as shown by several delicious crosses in the Palace game. I also like the fact he doesn't just bomb on past his winger like a kamikaze pilot (Moreno anyone) instead preferring at times to simply drop, received the ball, one touch and deliver. Some more of that please Andy. I think he will eventually be the starter and he will improve our first 11.

      Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - Grade B

      I like Ox, was happy enough to have been linked with him right from the start. Is he an out and out starter? Possibly not but he will push for a starting place in our best 11. He has had quite a few niggling injuries in his career Andy I think that this has stunted his development. If he can stay fit I think he can be a very important player. Not sure it will be in the middle of the park and reckon he will more likely be pushing Salah for game time but we've got a ton of footy to play this season so he'll get plenty of opportunities. Needs to find a bit more end product but he is quick, skilful and strong. Deffo the sort of player you need to help break down the bus parkers.

      Navy Keita Grade A

      Such a shame our most exciting signing won't be playing for LFC unti next season. Never the less I am chuffed to bits he will be coming. A dynamic box to box midfielder and don't we all miss having one of those. I  have to commend the club for signing him in this way, that was thinking outside of the box and I suspect we might have struggled to get him next summer had we not got the deal done.

      Players Out

      Lucas - Gutted because I've always loved Lucas, we don't have another player like him and there will be games this season where we will be wishing he could come on and shore things up in front of our leaky back four.

      Origi - he went backwards last season so it doesn't surprise me that he has gone out on loan. With Ox coming in he has dropped down the pec,in game order in a wide role and Solanke has jumped ahead of him as a centre forward. Would have preferred him to go to an English club as a last row of the dice to prove he has it. Suspect he will be sold next summer.

      Sakho - give our defensive frailties I think it is short sighted of Jürgen not to take another look at him but it isn't what it is and at least they got a decent fee for him. I'd be less bothered if we'd replaced him.

      Overall Transfer Window - Grade D

      Would have been an E but I'm so excited to be getting Keita so I've upped the grade. The players we have brought in should all contribute and Salah has already made a big difference. But there simply aren't enough of them, were three players short of where we should have been at the end of this window. We haven't addressed the centre half issue. A lot are pointing he finger at FSG but I think Klopp must also have had a say in the matter, the fact we weren't even linked properly to another centre half was strange. I think we also needed another centre forward, when studge gets gets injured again we are down to Firmino and Solanke and zings still seems to be a way off and had questionable quality even before he suffered two serious injuries that may have effected his pace and mobility. Like wise another centre mid although Ox may get some opportunities to show he can play there, I personally think Coutinho will play there when he stops sulking. And finally keeping Coutinho. I'm gladness we did, am sick of selling our best players and was good to stick two fingers up at Barca. Only issue is how will it affect the lads performances and are we going to see a slightly stroppy and disinterest player for the rest of the season, I suspect that might be the case. Factor in injuries, four competitions, fixture congestion over Christmas and fatigue from playing Klopps pressing game and the squad is simply too small.

      Overall feeling is one of opportunity missed to really strengthen and make a push for the title and at least a quarter final spot in the Europe. My worry is that we will hit the wall in January once again and be during the failure to bring in another 2-3 players to ensure there is depth and fresh legs over Christmas and new year periods.
      « Last Edit: Sep 01, 2017 10:22:22 pm by Scottbot »
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #1: Sep 01, 2017 09:22:10 pm
      Scot...understanding that missing the #1 target in VVD would be a deduction and not adding more could be too but how exactly do you come up with player grades of A-B-B-B-A and come up with a D or potentially an E?

      Bit harsh that isn't it? C+ maybe..B-?

      That is like a professor grading a paper that is 80% correct answers but then giving the student a fail because he expected an essay to accompany all the True/False questions?
      « Last Edit: Sep 01, 2017 09:26:20 pm by AZPatriot »
      paulow63
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #2: Sep 01, 2017 09:25:10 pm
      Glad you weren't my maths teacher at school, happily getting As and Bs, then end up with an E
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #3: Sep 01, 2017 09:29:58 pm
      Obviously we don't know how these players are going to turn out, but based on early observations...

      Salah- Has great positional sense, always seems to be in the right place at the right time to score. Blistering pace as shown against Arsenal for the break away goal. B+

      Solonke - Big, strong and has an eye for goal. Love seeing us getting a bargin buy that actually looks like just that, a bargin! One for the future that will get some game time this season to show what hes made off. B

      Robertson- Only one game so far but impressed in that game, juries out atm, could be a bargin or could be just another average defensive player. C

      The Ox- At least we all know what he's capable off when he's on form from his time at the Gooners. He's strong in the ball and will fit in well with our attacking philosophy. B

      Lucas leaving was sad, I think he still had plenty to offer, but If Klopp didn't see a place for him then he had to leave for his own good. Sakho really fu**ed up, Klopp couldn't forgive him so he also had to go.
      Origi doesn't look to have a future here. He hasn't progressed in the way we would've liked, and I think his Liverpool career is all but over.

      To sum up, We strengthened in the area where we were already strong, ignored the area which we are weakest in. It's clear that attack its going to be our best form of defence again this season, although young Alexander Arnold is a revelation at right back and will probably keep his place when Clyne comes back.

      Overall transfer window grade C due to leaving a glaring weakness in defence.

      « Last Edit: Sep 01, 2017 10:41:57 pm by ORCHARD RED »
      Magillionare
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #4: Sep 01, 2017 09:33:57 pm
      Mo Salah - Grade A

      He has made a cracking start to his LFC career following an excellent pre-season with a few goals and some strong performances in both the League and Europe thus far. He is incredibly quick and with Mane on the other side it has enabled us to really stretch the pitch and I'd say we are the most dangerous tea,minnthe league in the counter with these two in the side, even more so once Phil stops crying and gets his arse back into gear.given some of the crazy transfer fees this summer he also looks pretty good value for money. He is quick and direct and has goals in his game, I'd anticipate he will get more than 15 this season and if Mane can match it on the other side we are a good season. Most importantly for me, he improves our first 11.

      Dominic Solanke - Grade B-

      I don't think anyone was particularly excited when he came, Chelsea reject was the overriding feeling but he had a good tournament with the England Under 20s and followed that up with a strong pre-season. He looks good in the air, he strikes a ball nicely and I like the way he drops off and links play. The fact Origi has been allowed to go out on loan I think is in large part down to Solanke. It's still early days but he looks like he can be a real player. Important he grabs the opportunity when called upon in the League Cup in a couple of weeks.

      Andy Robertson - Grade B-

      Could well turn out to be a B+ but we've only got the one game to go on thus far and I hadn't seen too much of him last season. Early evidence sugggests he has got a sweet left foot as shown by several delicious crosses in the Palace game. I also like the fact he doesn't just bomb on past his winger like a kamikaze pilot (Moreno anyone) instead preferring at times to simply drop, received the ball, one touch and deliver. Some more of that please Andy. I think he will eventually be the starter and he will improve our first 11.

      Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - Grade B

      I like Ox, was happy enough to have been linked with him right from the start. Is he an out and out starter? Possibly not but he will push for a starting place in our best 11. He has had quite a few niggling injuries in his career Andy I think that this has stunted his development. If he can stay fit I think he can be a very important player. Not sure it will be in the middle of the park and reckon he will more likely be pushing Salah for game time but we've got a ton of footy to play this season so he'll get plenty of opportunities. Needs to find a bit more end product but he is quick, skilful and strong. Deffo the sort of player you need to help break down the bus parkers.

      Navy Keita Grade A

      Such a shame our most exciting signing won't be playing for LFC unti next season. Never the less I am chuffed to bits he will be coming. A dynamic box to box midfielder and don't we all miss having one of those. I  have to commend the club for signing him in this way, that was thinking outside of the box and I suspect we might have struggled to get him next summer had we not got the deal done.

      Players Out

      Lucas - Gutted because I've always loved Lucas, we don't have another player like him and there will be games this season where we will be wishing he could come on and shore things up in front of our leaky back four.

      Origi - he went backwards last season so it doesn't surprise me that he has gone out on loan. With Ox coming in he has dropped down the pec,in game order in a wide role and Solanke has jumped ahead of him as a centre forward. Would have preferred him to go to an English club as a last row of the dice to prove he has it. Suspect he will be sold next summer.

      Sakho - give our defensive frailties I think it is short sighted of Jürgen not to take another look at him but it isn't what it is and at least they got a decent fee for him. I'd be less bothered if we'd replaced him.

      Overall Transfer Window - Grade D

      Would have been an E but I'm so excited to be getting Keita so I've upped the grade. The players we have brought in should all contribute and Salah has already made a big difference. But there simply aren't enough of them. We haven't addressed the centre half issue. A lot are pointing he finger at FSG but I think Klopp must also have had a say in the matter, the fact we weren't even linked properly to another centre half was strange. I think we also needed another centre forward, when studge gets gets injured again we are down to Firmino and Solanke and zings still seems to be a way off and had questionable quality even before he suffered two serious injuries that may have effected his pace and mobility. Like wise another centre mid although Ox may get some opportunities to show he can play there, I personally think Coutinho will play there when he stops sulking. And finally keeping Coutinho. I'm gladness we did, am sick of selling our best players and was good to stick two fingers up at Barca. Only issue is how will it affect the lads performances and are we going to see a slightly stroppy and disinterest player for the rest of the season, I suspect that might be the case.

      Overall feeling is one of opportunity missed to really strengthen and make a push for the title and at least a quarter final spot in the Europe. My worry is that we will hit the wall in January once again and be during the failure to bring in another 2-3 players to ensure there is depth and fresh legs over Christmas and new year periods.


      You are a stupid person. Not one C in there, nevermind a D and you say it's close to an E

      WHAT!

      If we didn't sign Keita then the world would have run out of letters and the world would have been swallowed up by that math
      « Last Edit: Sep 01, 2017 09:43:35 pm by Magillionare »
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #5: Sep 01, 2017 09:39:32 pm
      Obviously we don't know how these players are going to turn out, but based on early observations...

      Salah- Has great positional sense, always seems ti be in the right place at the right time to score. Blistering pace as shown against Arsenal for the break away goal. B+

      Solonke - Big, strong and has an eye for goal. Love seeing us getting a bargin buy that actually looks like just that, a bargin! One for the future that will get some game time this season to show what hes made off. B

      Robertson- Only one game so far but impressed in that game, juries out atm, could be a bargin or could be just another average defensive player. C

      The Ox- At least we all know what he's capable off when he's on form from his time at the Gooners. He's strong in the ball and will fit in well with our attacking philosophy. B

      Lucas leaving was sad, I think he still had plenty to offer, but If Klopp didn't see a place for him then he had to leave for his own good. Sakho really fu**ed up, Klopp couldn't forgive him so he also had to go.
      Origi doesn't look to have a future here. He hasn't progressed in the easy we would've liked, and I think his Liverpool career is all but over.

      To sum up, We strengthened in the area where we were already strong, ignored the area which we are weakest in. It's clear that attack its going to be our best form of defence again this season, although young Alexander Arnold is a revelation at right back ascend well probably keep his place when Clyne comes back.

      Overall transfer window grade C due to leaving a glaring weakness in defence.



      Yeah I would give it a C+/B-  we won't know really until the season is finished.
      bmck
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #6: Sep 01, 2017 09:43:16 pm
      Not bad, but not as good as we were led to believe it would be.
      High enough hopes for Salah and Ox. Robertson has started well. Solanke is a punt.
      Just not enough bodies. Sahko, Lucas etc sold. Lot of guys gone out on loan who got time in the League/FA Cup runs, we might be stretched with 4 comps.
      Will many people be revising our placement up to 1 or 2?  Doubt it.  Main reason for that imo would be defense, Migs, Moreno, Lovren, Karius. Didn't really shake things up there. No VVD or Howedes. Hopefully Gomez fulfills some early promise. But have things really changed all that much back there since BRs days. Still chewing the finger nails at set pieces. Maybe a Kante or a Matic would improve the defense overnight, but not sure Jürgen goes for that more cautious approach.
      Up front, we're as good as anyone. No out-and-out striker, but we'll get our fair share of goals. Plus, Coutinho is like a new signing!! Would be more hopeful given the added umph up front we can batter more bus parkers into submission - and maybe see more of Phil in a deeper role for those too.
      We steer clear of a slew of injuries, we have strong team for PL/CL.  Would expect Jürgen to dip into the squad for League/FA cups which should be interesting.

      Window: C+      (and part of that is for FSG staying firm on Phil)
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #7: Sep 01, 2017 09:55:34 pm
      Scot...understanding that missing the #1 target in VVD would be a deduction and not adding more could be too but how exactly do you come up with player grades of A-B-B-B-A and come up with a D or potentially an E?

      Bit harsh that isn't it? C+ maybe..B-?

      That is like a professor grading a paper that is 80% correct answers but then giving the student a fail because he expected an essay to accompany all the True/False questions?

      If we're using exam marks, a C is the minimum pass grade so D would be about right. Personally I'd perfer to stay away from exam marks and say the window was neither a total success nor a total failure but somewhere inbetween. It was a very LFC window. Fail to land your top target because of some cock up or other. Until we learn from these persistent mistakes it won't change.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #8: Sep 01, 2017 09:56:25 pm
      If we're using exam marks, a C is the minimum pass grade so D would be about right

      Depends on what country your in..:)
      stuey
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #9: Sep 01, 2017 10:12:29 pm
      If we're using exam marks, a C is the minimum pass grade so D would be about right. Personally I'd perfer to stay away from exam marks and say the window was neither a total success nor a total failure but somewhere inbetween. It was a very LFC window. Fail to land your top target because of some cock up or other. Until we learn from these persistent mistakes it won't change.

      It does seem the habitual F**k ups have been part of FSG's CV over the last 8 years, is the statement released about Coutinho staying a well timed distraction?
      Magillionare
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #10: Sep 01, 2017 10:16:38 pm
      It does seem the habitual F**k ups have been part of FSG's CV over the last 8 years, is the statement released about Coutinho staying a well timed distraction?

      It was something just to release to reassure the fans he isn't going anywhere. People are so intrenched in the conspiracy that FSG are out to F**k the club up and pocket the money that they took it as a sign Phil is gone.

      Turns out they told the truth. Imagine.... I'm sure it's a PR spin though, if Phil leaves at 37 people will go back and slag FSG using this now decade old letter as evidence of the PR spin nature it had at heart.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #11: Sep 01, 2017 10:17:21 pm
      Scot...understanding that missing the #1 target in VVD would be a deduction and not adding more could be too but how exactly do you come up with player grades of A-B-B-B-A and come up with a D or potentially an E?

      Bit harsh that isn't it? C+ maybe..B-?

      That is like a professor grading a paper that is 80% correct answers but then giving the student a fail because he expected an essay to accompany all the True/False questions?

      It's pretty simple. I like the players we have brought in but ultimately, we haven't addressed a major weakness and I don't think the squad has the strength in depth to handle four competitions, a very busy Christmas period and the likliehood of injuries. Hence the overall grade does not reflect the individual grades I've given the individual players.

      And by the way I am a Teacher! 😀

      Obviously not maths though!
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #12: Sep 01, 2017 10:21:48 pm
      It was something just to release to reassure the fans he isn't going anywhere. People are so intrenched in the conspiracy that FSG are out to f**k the club up and pocket the money that they took it as a sign Phil is gone.

      Turns out they told the truth. Imagine.... I'm sure it's a PR spin though, if Phil leaves at 37 people will go back and slag FSG using this now decade old letter as evidence of the PR spin nature it had at heart.

      That entrenched position isn't going to go away until they make that statement signing we keep hearing about but never see signed. Even then there will remain a hardcore few that will never accept FSG even we won the League. You can thank H&G for that.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #13: Sep 01, 2017 10:24:03 pm
      That entrenched position isn't going to go away until they make that statement signing we keep hearing about but never see signed.

      5timesacharm
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #14: Sep 01, 2017 10:27:05 pm

      He's not wearing a red shirt is he? I didn't say it was something I subscribe to either. I've long said the problem lies between the board and manager.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #15: Sep 01, 2017 10:31:00 pm
      He's not wearing a red shirt is he? I didn't say it was something I subscribe to either. I've long said the problem lies between the board and manager.

      Well you could look at it this way..if Phil is leaving next Summer like we all think in the past we would bring his replacement in a month after he left and it would be Jake Livermore....at least now we have his replacement all done and dusted a year ahead of time and can continue building from there.

      It ain't much but its better than when Louis left.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #16: Sep 01, 2017 10:36:02 pm
      Well you could look at it this way..if Phil is leaving next Summer like we all think in the past we would bring his replacement in a month after he left and it would be Jake Livermore....at least now we have his replacement all done and dusted a year ahead of time and can continue building from there.

      It ain't much but its better than when Louis left.

      I don't think he's Phil's replacement and I don't necessarily see Barcelona coming in for him again. I think he's more likely to be Can's replacement, although personally I hope we can keep him too. We need as much talent in the squad as possible.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #17: Sep 01, 2017 10:41:23 pm
      I don't think he's Phil's replacement and I don't necessarily see Barcelona coming in for him again. I think he's more likely to be Can's replacement, although personally I hope we can keep him too. We need as much talent in the squad as possible.

      Is right Keita is nothing like Coutinho, like you I hope we keep hold of Can and see Keita taking Gini's position as the box to box midfielder.
      I also think Can is better as the DM rather than Hendo.

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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #18: Sep 01, 2017 10:47:21 pm
      Surely this should be a thing for the end of the season once we know how the players have actually turned out?
      Magillionare
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #19: Sep 01, 2017 10:47:24 pm
      He's not wearing a red shirt is he? I didn't say it was something I subscribe to either. I've long said the problem lies between the board and manager.

      I knew you don't subscribe mate from the second line of that statement.

      I think the deaf ears the Keita deal is going on speaks volumes to the people who would rather complain and bash than give compliments. Sad way to live really.

      I personally try to find positives, wish more would too. You're right, there will be some when we win the league still won't be happy about net spend or a sleeve sponsor not being right.
      stuey
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #20: Sep 01, 2017 11:28:24 pm
      It was something just to release to reassure the fans he isn't going anywhere. People are so intrenched in the conspiracy that FSG are out to F**k the club up and pocket the money that they took it as a sign Phil is gone.

      Turns out they told the truth. Imagine.... I'm sure it's a PR spin though, if Phil leaves at 37 people will go back and slag FSG using this now decade old letter as evidence of the PR spin nature it had at heart.

      No entrenchment or conspiracy theories mate, not with me at least; I have to overcome 8 years of underachievement, disappointment and false economies under FSG.
      Ironically we have to wait another season for a player who could affect those 8 barren years, more to the point we need Keita now for the CL challenge we face, not to mention those areas of play that could be our undoing and haven't been addressed.

      As stated while the news about Coutinho is very welcome it is no more than a diversion to take the edge off some shortcomings.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #21: Sep 01, 2017 11:52:22 pm
      No entrenchment or conspiracy theories mate, not with me at least; I have to overcome 8 years of underachievement, disappointment and false economies under FSG.
      Ironically we have to wait another season for a player who could affect those 8 barren years, more to the point we need Keita now for the CL challenge we face, not to mention those areas of play that could be our undoing and haven't been addressed.

      As stated while the news about Coutinho is very welcome it is no more than a diversion to take the edge off some shortcomings.

      The thing is, whilst you're not wrong, and whilst they have undeninably under invested in the squad, they seem to have pulled out all the stops this Summer, Klopp's second full year in charge. Could it be rather than them underinvesting out of corporate greed, they underinvested out of a lack of faith in past managers's judgement? Klopp isn't trying to win a title with Liverpool, he's trying to create a footballing legacy, an Empire of sustained success that will continue for years to come. It seems, on the surface at least, that they are fully bought into this vision because they see signs of this vision unfolding on the pirch, and decided to invest now because of that.

      « Last Edit: Sep 01, 2017 11:57:44 pm by 5timesacharm »
      JD
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      Re: Grading the Transfer Window
      Reply #22: Sep 02, 2017 01:13:03 am
      What's with all this letter grading!

      I was going to give it a 5/10 but maybe I'll be a bit more positive and give it a 6/10.

      Salah looks a fine signing - started well but there are a lot of games to go and a lot of tough opposition to face.

      For me, our central defence, the bane of our failed title tilts and cup runs and cup finals in recent years, hasn't been strengthened.  In fact it's been weakened.  Lucas played there loads last season - not because he was brilliant, but because injuries etc required it.  It should have been strengthened, even before HE left, with all the extra games we are hoping to play this season.   

      Matip is very good, Klavan can put in some excellent performances here and there, Lovren's a walking clean-sheet ender, Gomez - seems Klopp likes him down the wing.  I make that 3 genuine centre-backs at the club - training each week to operate as a centre-back.  We even sold Andre Wisdom for a couple of quid as well as Sakho.

      Oxlade-Chamberlain - wasn't top of my transfer list in May.  When that thread was first opened - most people had him down as a useful addition to squad - and that was when Henderson was injured!

      Solanke - looked good in the friendlies, but Origi looked boss in the World's biggest football tournament.  Untested at a senior level.

      Robertson - had a good game against Crystal Palace.  Can't add much more than that as didn't track his performances against the big Premier League clubs last season. 

      I'd struggle to give that more than a six out of ten, and I'd be amazed if we make it through even to January without our centre-back issue creating a problem for us.  I don't think I need to mention the goalkeeping issue.

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