Ferguson: I couldn't tell you where Liverpool are in the table... But I know where the other mob are - don't you worry about that

By Rob Draper for The Mail on Sunday

Published: 17:30 EDT, 12 January 2013 | Updated: 18:47 EDT, 12 January 2013

The jibes still come thick and fast, but these days they are accompanied with a smile rather than a snarl.

Sir Alex Ferguson is 71 and more than 26 years of his life have been devoted to ensuring Manchester United are the predominant football club in England.

And a fixture against Liverpool brings some perspective, a reminder that once it was the club 35 miles down the East Lancs Road that was the seemingly immovable object and United who had gone decades without the league title.

Mind games: Sir Alex Ferguson says he pays more attention to where Manchester City are in the table than fierce rivals Liverpool

Even as recently as 2009, the clubs battled for domestic supremacy but on Sunday, when they kick off at Old Trafford, United will stand 21 points clear of their opponents.

And Ferguson's response to that fact gives the most telling insight into how far Liverpool have fallen.

'I never even thought about that until it was mentioned on TV,' he says, appearing unconcerned. 'I don't really look at that.'

And then, almost mid-sentence, his tone and stance changed, like an animal suddenly alerted to a nearby predator.

'I look at that mob that's behind us, don't worry. I look at my immediate opponents all the time. I look at their programme, who they've got next, who we've got next. I do that all the time.'

Never have Manchester City been so complimented by Ferguson. Off the cuff and instinctive, he is compelling. It is rare to see him in that mood.

Ferguson's weekly press briefing can be the most confrontational in the business. But his relationship with journalists is more nuanced.

At times, he appears to enjoy their company, and Friday morning was one of those. He has, after all, spent more than a quarter of a century proving so many wrong.

This lot? Ferguson said he pays attention to who the 'mob' - most likely champions City - will be playing next

Bothered? Roberto Mancini said he did not care about Manchester United's clash with Liverpool

Reflecting on the task facing Brendan Rodgers at Liverpool and comparing it with his own early years at United, Ferguson wants to emphasise how much has changed since then. But he ends up concluding that much is just as it was.

'You're looking at different times,' he says. 'Twenty six years ago was different, in terms of people's patience. And the Press today … well, I think it was the same back then.'

He names an eminent football writer and recalls: 'I always remember winning the FA Cup [in 1990] and he wrote a piece saying "OK, we know you can win a cup. Now go back to Scotland and get back up the road". He was the doyen among you journalists.'

You sense that time has mellowed the hurt; but only a little. The lines come thick and fast. His eulogy to Steven Gerrard is followed by an inquiry as to whether he ever tried to sign him.

'Don't ask … it's not a question that,' he says with a roguish grin. 'Imagine me going to bed having taken Gerrard from Liverpool? Christ Almighty.'

The image conjured is of half a city hunting down Sir Alex for abducting their hero. Is it a pity that a player of Gerrard's class has never won the league?

League's best: Luis Suarez (left) and Robin van Persie (right) will face off at Old Trafford

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Me too: So has Van Persie for Manchester United

'I don't think it's a pity. Are you joking? Bloody hell.' But, he is asked, could you imagine Liverpool going 23 years without a title?

'Oh yes,' he comes back. 'I've been dreaming about it.' It is a fixture that still stirs an old warrior.

Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City are all well and good; Liverpool is the clash he seems to relish.

'Liverpool were always the ones and nothing will change. It's nothing to do with our position in the league. It's about the history, geography.'

And he suddenly halts to embark on a history lesson. 'What's his name, who built the ship canal? Mason? No it wasnae Mason.'

No help is forthcoming, but Ferguson will not be defeated. Fifteen seconds of silence elapse and no one interrupts.

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'It's coming,' says Ferguson. 'It begins with an A. Adamson. Correct?' He is. Daniel Adamson was the engineer behind the construction of the canal.

'He took all the industry away from Liverpool to Manchester. From that day on, the rivalry between the cities was there. Therefore, it's not just football; geographically, there is fantastic competition.

'Of course, being the two most successful clubs, that has intensified over the years and that won't change. 'If we two were bottom of the league or in the second division it would be the same.'

And you almost detect a degree of empathy when he is asked about the task facing Rodgers, 40 years old this month and attempting to reconstruct a club with five European Cup wins, the most recent in 2005, but without a league title for 23 years.

'It is a burden,' says the United manager. 'I knew the challenge when I came here. I always remember that in one of my early press conferences, I said: "We can't afford to go 25 years without winning the title." But it was 26 years before we did.

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Snub: Suarez then refused to shake hands with Evra when the sides met again at Old Trafford

Brave face: The pair shook hands when the sides met subsequently

'So you're weighed down with the history of your club. I was at United. And Brendan will be exactly the same. Because you're aware of the history and so is everyone else - the fans, the players. It's not easy.

'They were fantastic Liverpool teams in the Seventies and Eighties; that's why they dominated. They had a good management structure and two great managers in a row.

'Bill Shankly created it and then Bob Paisley carried it on. It was a tragedy for Bill to quit then for the team to go on and win three European titles with Bob. I think Shankly deserved one of those. They were the dominant team, no question.

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'It took me three-and-a-half years to win a trophy. I had to get rid of a lot of players to create the position to buy players. In the 1988-89 season, we got rid of eight or nine players so we could buy Gary Pallister, Paul Ince, Mike Phelan, Danny Wallace and Neil Webb.

'We had to bring in youth, we knew fine well where we were going all right. I said to the chairman the season before, when we were second to Liverpool: "This team could never win the league." I knew they couldn't win the league. We worked away at it.'

What has changed, Ferguson feels, is the scope to play the transfer market as he once did. There are now fewer bargains, with the value of a player extracted much more ruthlessly.

'There's no question that the market today is horrendous for everyone, even ourselves,' he says.

'If I'd have thought 10 years ago I'd pay £22million for a player in the last year of his contract [Robin van Persie], you would've said: "Don't be stupid. It's the daftest thing you could ever do." But we're in that market.'

Improvement: Manchester United were rescued by Van Persie in the FA Cup third round tie at West Ham

And there is the value of Champions League participation, usually estimated at about £30m a season, which Liverpool have now missed for three seasons.

'I think that's a point, that's a good point,' he says. 'For us, if we were not in the Champions League, it would be a disaster and that probably applies to other big clubs.'

But Ferguson is not among those who believe Liverpool will be down forever. In fact, you almost feel the prospect of his old enemy reviving is what drives him on and gives him his extraordinary vitality. 'History repeats itself,' he says.

'Cycles repeat, too. France, for a long time, were producing players like Vieira, Petit, Zidane. That's gone.

'Now Belgium are in the cycle of producing really good players. Spain are in the cycle of winning the European Championship, World Cup, Europeans Cups. Those two teams [Barcelona and Spain] are definitely dominant.

'But cycles change and that's where we probably, as a club, are more aware than anyone. We know it happens and that's why we have to be one step ahead.'

And that's where they will surely remain now for the rest of his time as manager, however long that is.